[Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became ground zero for a rare gemstone

Tue Jul 20 18:22:28 PDT 2021

Herwig,

McGovernite? I’ve got 3 of those as well. 

So apparently if you want to collect “rare" minerals, apparently one way to do it is to collect from a oddball locations with a lot of minerals, because some of them are going to be rare!  Since I collect from Franklin/SH, Långban and Mt St Hilaire, there are a lot of rarities to be found. 

Doug

> On Jul 20, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Doug,
> Thank you for your detailed reply. Your message shows there is more to the
> usage of "rare" than we normally think of.
> As Andrew confirmed, it is very important to add a context to every usage
> of rare.
> 
> I will not talk about the descriptions of Rob and his crew. It would take
> us too far.
> 
> Let'slook at some of your examples. You mention charoite, the locality list
> is here: https://www.mindat.org/min-972.html#autoanchor21
> I guess we can call this a strictly Russian mineral! :-)
> 
> So yes, the number of localities is very limited, so you could say it is a
> mineral that is very rarely encountered at a locality. But are specimens of
> charoite a rare sight on mineral shows across the world? I don't think so!
> So to me, charoite is not a rare mineral, for almost all collectors have
> seen it and were able to buy a specimen if they wanted.
> Same goes for tanzanite.(which by the way is a variety of zoisite, and not
> a mineral species of its own).
> 
> Regarding the localities where benitoite has been found, there are more
> than 2-3. See https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> But if you wanted to say that there are/were only 2 or 3 localities where
> benitoite was quite common, then I would agree with you.
> 
> Let me quote what the Lapis book has to say:
> *Rare*: known only from a few localities or only in restricted amounts
> (examples Eulytine and Schoonerite), or just from a single locality, yet
> occurring there somewhat more frequent (examples alIanpringite and
> mcgovernite).
> *Extremely rare*: confirmed until now only on a few samples (examples
> imhofite and ophirite). This status might decrease with time, as new
> locations are found.
> 
> Cheers, Herwig
> 
> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 21:54 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>:
> 
>> Herwig,
>> 
>> I respectfully disagree with you. Let me argue it backwards.
>> 
>> If benitoite, which is only really found in 2-3 locations in the entire
>> world, is classified as “fairly limited distribution”, that implies that
>> for something to be rare, it has to be at fewer than 2-3 places in the
>> world. That doesn’t leave much room for extremely rare…
>> 
>> When Rob Lavinsky or any other dealer says something is rare, I take that
>> with a grain of salt. But if there are multiple terms for rarity, then they
>> have to have objective definitions to be useful. I do not think that saying
>> that only items from a single location can be extremely rare or rare gives
>> much wiggle room and isn’t helpful.
>> 
>> What would you say for charoite? Is it rare? What about tanzanite?  I see
>> them all the time, so I wouldn’t think so, but they really only come from
>> one site/regional locality on the planet, so they do strike me as being
>> rare in the evolution of minerals on Earth.
>> 
>> To pick on Rob a bit more I looked at the latest MineralAuctions and find
>> the word rare used, well, not rarely…
>> 
>> Morganite is listed as rare, but it looks to me like there are hundreds of
>> localities on all continents.
>> Cookeite is listed as rare, but seems to be found in even more locations
>> than morganite.
>> Schorl with Cleavelandite is listed as rare, which just seems silly. I’ve
>> got a couple specimens that I got for free!
>> Calcite!!! that fluoresces from Ohio is called rare. In this case, the
>> specimen isn’t even that fluorescent, but fluorescent calcite is hardly
>> rare no matter how you spin it.
>> Faden Quartz is listed as rare from Arkansas. Quartz certainly isn’t rare
>> there, but is faden quartz?
>> Tourmaline is listed as coming from a rare locale. What does THAT mean? If
>> I look at that mine, almost all the pictures are of tourmaline, so why is
>> it rare?
>> Turquoise is listed as being RARE from Arizona. REALLY? How do they write
>> that with a straight face? There are ~40 localities for it in Arizona. How
>> is that rare?
>> Magnetite! is listed as being rare from California. Mindat wont even show
>> me how many places it is found, but it is listed as being found in 17,794
>> localities. How can it be rare anywhere?
>> Colemanite - this one is also called a rare locale, and it might actually
>> be correct since it is on National Park Land and no one can actually
>> extract any more. But is it really rare? doubtful.
>> 
>> Forget Rob, what about my own specimens?
>> 
>> Tunisite? 5 localities listed. Seems rare to me, but it is on 3
>> continents. Fairly limited? bah.
>> Lobanovite? There are at least 6 localities, but they are all within 30 km
>> of each other…
>> Zdenĕkite? 4 localities, plus the name has funny characters in it. Seems
>> pretty rare.
>> Shkatulkalite? 2 localities. Have we reached extremely rare yet?
>> What about Chlorophoenicite? It is only found at Franklin/Sterling Hill,
>> and it is pretty hard to find even there. Is that extremely rare, because I
>> have 5 specimens of it… Just because I can buy it doesn’t mean it isn’t
>> rare. What about esperite? It was really only found in one spot in the
>> Franklin Mine, but again, if you want it, it is out there to buy.
>> 
>> I guess my point is that when dealers say something is rare, it probably
>> isn’t. But when *you* say it is rare, it is probably restricted to a single
>> place and isn’t common at that place. I personally don’t think that either
>> definition is particularly useful. (Although if someone can call calcite
>> rare, and they aren’t talking about a moon rock, I don’t think I trust
>> them) I agree that esperite and chlorophoenicite are rare, possibly even
>> extremely rare, but I still think the others I listed are rare in the grand
>> scheme of things.
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Herwig Pelckmans <
>> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Andrew,
>>> Thank you for sharing your point of view.
>>> There are not many books that indicate if a mineral is to be considered
>>> "rare" or not. One that I know is "The Complete Mineral Index for
>>> Collectors", printed by Lapis (first edition in 2015). They use x =
>> fairly
>>> limited distribution, xx = rare, and xxx = extremely rare.
>>> If you know of others, please let me know.
>>> 
>>> Regarding benitoite, I'm afraid I have to disagree. Check the locality
>> list
>>> on Mindat: https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
>>> More specifically, in San Benito County, benitoite used to be common at
>> the
>>> type locality. Meanwhile, that locality has been collected & mined for a
>>> long time and extensively, so most likely benitoite is a rare find there
>>> and now. But at the other Mine you mentioned, it can still be found
>> today,
>>> by all who go there, because it's almost everywhere (I've been there a
>> few
>>> times myself).
>>> So contrary to what certain people (dealers?) might want to make you
>> think,
>>> benitoite is a common mineral there. Consequently, IMHO you can not call
>> it
>>> rare on a locality basis, and considering the number of specimens found
>> to
>>> date, neither on a worldwide basis. I would call the status of benitoite
>> as
>>> "fairly limited in distribution", even though the Lapis book has it as
>> xx.
>>> 
>>> More in general, I think it is better practice to specify why something
>> is
>>> being called "rare". If one only takes into account the number of
>> specimens
>>> known for a mineral species, that is a whole different approach than
>> saying
>>> "calcite is rare at that locality" because it is the wrong geologic
>> setting
>>> for calcite. I fully agree a statement like "calcite is extremely rare at
>>> this location" is valid.
>>> 
>>> I assume we all agree that minerals only known by one specimen; are to be
>>> considered extremely rare in any way.
>>> On a worldwide basis, at what number of specimens a mineral changes
>> status
>>> from extremely rare to rare, and from rare to a "fairly limited
>>> distribution", and further down to "common", is something that is open
>> for
>>> discussion, of course.
>>> Cheers, Herwig
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 16:23 schreef Andrew Turner <turnea55 at hotmail.com
>>> :
>>> 
>>>> Typically, when mineral collectors discuss something being "rare," they
>>>> are referring to the mineral only being found in very few locations or
>>>> being found in several locations but not being very common at any of
>> them.
>>>> 
>>>> In both instances, benitoite would be considered rare.  It is only found
>>>> really at 3 locations, the Benitoite Mine, an adjacent mine (where it is
>>>> very rare), and an abstract locality in Japan where it is very small.
>> Even
>>>> at the Benitoite Mine it is rather difficult to find (I've collected at
>> the
>>>> mine) and the mine is small.  So, yes, many mineral collectors have a
>>>> specimen from there, but it is essentially a one locality mineral which
>>>> makes it rare.   This isn't much different than red beryl which is
>> found in
>>>> 3 locations in the Thomas Range, 2-3 locations in the Wah Wah Mountains
>> to
>>>> the south, and an abstract NM location.  Taaffeite would fall into the
>>>> other category, it is found in several locations but exceedingly rare to
>>>> find at any of them.  In all those cases, it is different than something
>>>> like Okanoganite or Tiptopite which are not only one locality minerals,
>> but
>>>> they are exceptionally rare even at that one location.
>>>> 
>>>> Oftentimes, collectors also call something rare if it is a fairly common
>>>> mineral but phenomenal specimens are only found in 1-2 locations.  I
>> have
>>>> heard adamite from the Ojuela Mine referred to as being rare.  Adamite
>> is
>>>> found in many arsenic bearing lead and silver deposits, but the
>> specimens
>>>> from Ojuela are probably the best in the world.  Only other place that
>> is
>>>> even close to that quality is Gold Hill, UT.  So, yes, you can collect
>>>> adamite everywhere, but nothing of the quality of the Mexican pieces.
>>>> 
>>>> Andrew Turner
>>>> Salt Lake City, UT
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on behalf
>> of
>>>> Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:20 PM
>>>> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
>> <
>>>> rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became
>> ground
>>>> zero for a rare gemstone
>>>> 
>>>> Talking about exaggerated ... benitoite being one of the rarest
>> minerals on
>>>> earth?
>>>> Most mineral collectors have at least one specimen in their
>> collections, so
>>>> I would not call that rare!
>>>> 
>>>> On the other hand, it was neat to see that old newspaper clip
>> advertising
>>>> the newly found gemstone!
>>>> Cheers, Herwig
>>>> 
>>>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 05:00 schreef Paul <etchplain at att.net>:
>>>> 
>>>>> How San Benito County became ground zero for a rare gemstone
>>>>> Published 07/17/2021 BenitoLink Reporter, Robert Eliason
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbenitolink.com%2Fhow-san-benito-county-became-ground-zero-for-a-rare-gemstone%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C51f6213deabf41618af308d94b2d7898%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637623480937397284%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=7iekO30h9pIT%2BMG1C3Fy3nhOdaVTjr1XUGzUn7dEJ0M%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> 
>>>>> A chance discovery in 1907 yielded a unique precious mineral;
>>>>> now the public can go look for samples on Saturdays.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul H.
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