[Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became ground zero for a rare gemstone

Tue Jul 20 20:44:57 PDT 2021

Wasn't there some exotic gemstone found, IIRC in eastern Wyoming, that
ignited a gem craze but was soon exhausted and not found again. Seems like
it was blue. I'll have to dig out my WY rockhound book.

BK

““There exists a law…inborn of our hearts…by natural intuition. … If our
lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any
and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.””
Cicero

J Bryan Krämer       North Florida, USA
photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 7:23 PM Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> Herwig,
>
> McGovernite? I’ve got 3 of those as well.
>
> So apparently if you want to collect “rare" minerals, apparently one way
> to do it is to collect from a oddball locations with a lot of minerals,
> because some of them are going to be rare!  Since I collect from
> Franklin/SH, Långban and Mt St Hilaire, there are a lot of rarities to be
> found.
>
> Doug
>
> > On Jul 20, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Doug,
> > Thank you for your detailed reply. Your message shows there is more to
> the
> > usage of "rare" than we normally think of.
> > As Andrew confirmed, it is very important to add a context to every usage
> > of rare.
> >
> > I will not talk about the descriptions of Rob and his crew. It would take
> > us too far.
> >
> > Let'slook at some of your examples. You mention charoite, the locality
> list
> > is here: https://www.mindat.org/min-972.html#autoanchor21
> > I guess we can call this a strictly Russian mineral! :-)
> >
> > So yes, the number of localities is very limited, so you could say it is
> a
> > mineral that is very rarely encountered at a locality. But are specimens
> of
> > charoite a rare sight on mineral shows across the world? I don't think
> so!
> > So to me, charoite is not a rare mineral, for almost all collectors have
> > seen it and were able to buy a specimen if they wanted.
> > Same goes for tanzanite.(which by the way is a variety of zoisite, and
> not
> > a mineral species of its own).
> >
> > Regarding the localities where benitoite has been found, there are more
> > than 2-3. See https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> > But if you wanted to say that there are/were only 2 or 3 localities where
> > benitoite was quite common, then I would agree with you.
> >
> > Let me quote what the Lapis book has to say:
> > *Rare*: known only from a few localities or only in restricted amounts
> > (examples Eulytine and Schoonerite), or just from a single locality, yet
> > occurring there somewhat more frequent (examples alIanpringite and
> > mcgovernite).
> > *Extremely rare*: confirmed until now only on a few samples (examples
> > imhofite and ophirite). This status might decrease with time, as new
> > locations are found.
> >
> > Cheers, Herwig
> >
> > Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 21:54 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>:
> >
> >> Herwig,
> >>
> >> I respectfully disagree with you. Let me argue it backwards.
> >>
> >> If benitoite, which is only really found in 2-3 locations in the entire
> >> world, is classified as “fairly limited distribution”, that implies that
> >> for something to be rare, it has to be at fewer than 2-3 places in the
> >> world. That doesn’t leave much room for extremely rare…
> >>
> >> When Rob Lavinsky or any other dealer says something is rare, I take
> that
> >> with a grain of salt. But if there are multiple terms for rarity, then
> they
> >> have to have objective definitions to be useful. I do not think that
> saying
> >> that only items from a single location can be extremely rare or rare
> gives
> >> much wiggle room and isn’t helpful.
> >>
> >> What would you say for charoite? Is it rare? What about tanzanite?  I
> see
> >> them all the time, so I wouldn’t think so, but they really only come
> from
> >> one site/regional locality on the planet, so they do strike me as being
> >> rare in the evolution of minerals on Earth.
> >>
> >> To pick on Rob a bit more I looked at the latest MineralAuctions and
> find
> >> the word rare used, well, not rarely…
> >>
> >> Morganite is listed as rare, but it looks to me like there are hundreds
> of
> >> localities on all continents.
> >> Cookeite is listed as rare, but seems to be found in even more locations
> >> than morganite.
> >> Schorl with Cleavelandite is listed as rare, which just seems silly.
> I’ve
> >> got a couple specimens that I got for free!
> >> Calcite!!! that fluoresces from Ohio is called rare. In this case, the
> >> specimen isn’t even that fluorescent, but fluorescent calcite is hardly
> >> rare no matter how you spin it.
> >> Faden Quartz is listed as rare from Arkansas. Quartz certainly isn’t
> rare
> >> there, but is faden quartz?
> >> Tourmaline is listed as coming from a rare locale. What does THAT mean?
> If
> >> I look at that mine, almost all the pictures are of tourmaline, so why
> is
> >> it rare?
> >> Turquoise is listed as being RARE from Arizona. REALLY? How do they
> write
> >> that with a straight face? There are ~40 localities for it in Arizona.
> How
> >> is that rare?
> >> Magnetite! is listed as being rare from California. Mindat wont even
> show
> >> me how many places it is found, but it is listed as being found in
> 17,794
> >> localities. How can it be rare anywhere?
> >> Colemanite - this one is also called a rare locale, and it might
> actually
> >> be correct since it is on National Park Land and no one can actually
> >> extract any more. But is it really rare? doubtful.
> >>
> >> Forget Rob, what about my own specimens?
> >>
> >> Tunisite? 5 localities listed. Seems rare to me, but it is on 3
> >> continents. Fairly limited? bah.
> >> Lobanovite? There are at least 6 localities, but they are all within 30
> km
> >> of each other…
> >> Zdenĕkite? 4 localities, plus the name has funny characters in it. Seems
> >> pretty rare.
> >> Shkatulkalite? 2 localities. Have we reached extremely rare yet?
> >> What about Chlorophoenicite? It is only found at Franklin/Sterling Hill,
> >> and it is pretty hard to find even there. Is that extremely rare,
> because I
> >> have 5 specimens of it… Just because I can buy it doesn’t mean it isn’t
> >> rare. What about esperite? It was really only found in one spot in the
> >> Franklin Mine, but again, if you want it, it is out there to buy.
> >>
> >> I guess my point is that when dealers say something is rare, it probably
> >> isn’t. But when *you* say it is rare, it is probably restricted to a
> single
> >> place and isn’t common at that place. I personally don’t think that
> either
> >> definition is particularly useful. (Although if someone can call calcite
> >> rare, and they aren’t talking about a moon rock, I don’t think I trust
> >> them) I agree that esperite and chlorophoenicite are rare, possibly even
> >> extremely rare, but I still think the others I listed are rare in the
> grand
> >> scheme of things.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>> On Jul 20, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> >> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Andrew,
> >>> Thank you for sharing your point of view.
> >>> There are not many books that indicate if a mineral is to be considered
> >>> "rare" or not. One that I know is "The Complete Mineral Index for
> >>> Collectors", printed by Lapis (first edition in 2015). They use x =
> >> fairly
> >>> limited distribution, xx = rare, and xxx = extremely rare.
> >>> If you know of others, please let me know.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding benitoite, I'm afraid I have to disagree. Check the locality
> >> list
> >>> on Mindat: https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> >>> More specifically, in San Benito County, benitoite used to be common at
> >> the
> >>> type locality. Meanwhile, that locality has been collected & mined for
> a
> >>> long time and extensively, so most likely benitoite is a rare find
> there
> >>> and now. But at the other Mine you mentioned, it can still be found
> >> today,
> >>> by all who go there, because it's almost everywhere (I've been there a
> >> few
> >>> times myself).
> >>> So contrary to what certain people (dealers?) might want to make you
> >> think,
> >>> benitoite is a common mineral there. Consequently, IMHO you can not
> call
> >> it
> >>> rare on a locality basis, and considering the number of specimens found
> >> to
> >>> date, neither on a worldwide basis. I would call the status of
> benitoite
> >> as
> >>> "fairly limited in distribution", even though the Lapis book has it as
> >> xx.
> >>>
> >>> More in general, I think it is better practice to specify why something
> >> is
> >>> being called "rare". If one only takes into account the number of
> >> specimens
> >>> known for a mineral species, that is a whole different approach than
> >> saying
> >>> "calcite is rare at that locality" because it is the wrong geologic
> >> setting
> >>> for calcite. I fully agree a statement like "calcite is extremely rare
> at
> >>> this location" is valid.
> >>>
> >>> I assume we all agree that minerals only known by one specimen; are to
> be
> >>> considered extremely rare in any way.
> >>> On a worldwide basis, at what number of specimens a mineral changes
> >> status
> >>> from extremely rare to rare, and from rare to a "fairly limited
> >>> distribution", and further down to "common", is something that is open
> >> for
> >>> discussion, of course.
> >>> Cheers, Herwig
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 16:23 schreef Andrew Turner <
> turnea55 at hotmail.com
> >>> :
> >>>
> >>>> Typically, when mineral collectors discuss something being "rare,"
> they
> >>>> are referring to the mineral only being found in very few locations or
> >>>> being found in several locations but not being very common at any of
> >> them.
> >>>>
> >>>> In both instances, benitoite would be considered rare.  It is only
> found
> >>>> really at 3 locations, the Benitoite Mine, an adjacent mine (where it
> is
> >>>> very rare), and an abstract locality in Japan where it is very small.
> >> Even
> >>>> at the Benitoite Mine it is rather difficult to find (I've collected
> at
> >> the
> >>>> mine) and the mine is small.  So, yes, many mineral collectors have a
> >>>> specimen from there, but it is essentially a one locality mineral
> which
> >>>> makes it rare.   This isn't much different than red beryl which is
> >> found in
> >>>> 3 locations in the Thomas Range, 2-3 locations in the Wah Wah
> Mountains
> >> to
> >>>> the south, and an abstract NM location.  Taaffeite would fall into the
> >>>> other category, it is found in several locations but exceedingly rare
> to
> >>>> find at any of them.  In all those cases, it is different than
> something
> >>>> like Okanoganite or Tiptopite which are not only one locality
> minerals,
> >> but
> >>>> they are exceptionally rare even at that one location.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oftentimes, collectors also call something rare if it is a fairly
> common
> >>>> mineral but phenomenal specimens are only found in 1-2 locations.  I
> >> have
> >>>> heard adamite from the Ojuela Mine referred to as being rare.  Adamite
> >> is
> >>>> found in many arsenic bearing lead and silver deposits, but the
> >> specimens
> >>>> from Ojuela are probably the best in the world.  Only other place that
> >> is
> >>>> even close to that quality is Gold Hill, UT.  So, yes, you can collect
> >>>> adamite everywhere, but nothing of the quality of the Mexican pieces.
> >>>>
> >>>> Andrew Turner
> >>>> Salt Lake City, UT
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on
> behalf
> >> of
> >>>> Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:20 PM
> >>>> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> collectors
> >> <
> >>>> rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became
> >> ground
> >>>> zero for a rare gemstone
> >>>>
> >>>> Talking about exaggerated ... benitoite being one of the rarest
> >> minerals on
> >>>> earth?
> >>>> Most mineral collectors have at least one specimen in their
> >> collections, so
> >>>> I would not call that rare!
> >>>>
> >>>> On the other hand, it was neat to see that old newspaper clip
> >> advertising
> >>>> the newly found gemstone!
> >>>> Cheers, Herwig
> >>>>
> >>>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 05:00 schreef Paul <etchplain at att.net>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> How San Benito County became ground zero for a rare gemstone
> >>>>> Published 07/17/2021 BenitoLink Reporter, Robert Eliason
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>> A chance discovery in 1907 yielded a unique precious mineral;
> >>>>> now the public can go look for samples on Saturdays.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yours,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul H.
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