[Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became ground zero for a rare gemstone

Tue Jul 20 13:51:36 PDT 2021

Hi Doug,
Thank you for your detailed reply. Your message shows there is more to the
usage of "rare" than we normally think of.
As Andrew confirmed, it is very important to add a context to every usage
of rare.

I will not talk about the descriptions of Rob and his crew. It would take
us too far.

Let'slook at some of your examples. You mention charoite, the locality list
is here: https://www.mindat.org/min-972.html#autoanchor21
I guess we can call this a strictly Russian mineral! :-)

So yes, the number of localities is very limited, so you could say it is a
mineral that is very rarely encountered at a locality. But are specimens of
charoite a rare sight on mineral shows across the world? I don't think so!
So to me, charoite is not a rare mineral, for almost all collectors have
seen it and were able to buy a specimen if they wanted.
Same goes for tanzanite.(which by the way is a variety of zoisite, and not
a mineral species of its own).

Regarding the localities where benitoite has been found, there are more
than 2-3. See https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
But if you wanted to say that there are/were only 2 or 3 localities where
benitoite was quite common, then I would agree with you.

Let me quote what the Lapis book has to say:
*Rare*: known only from a few localities or only in restricted amounts
(examples Eulytine and Schoonerite), or just from a single locality, yet
occurring there somewhat more frequent (examples alIanpringite and
mcgovernite).
*Extremely rare*: confirmed until now only on a few samples (examples
imhofite and ophirite). This status might decrease with time, as new
locations are found.

Cheers, Herwig

Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 21:54 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>:

> Herwig,
>
> I respectfully disagree with you. Let me argue it backwards.
>
> If benitoite, which is only really found in 2-3 locations in the entire
> world, is classified as “fairly limited distribution”, that implies that
> for something to be rare, it has to be at fewer than 2-3 places in the
> world. That doesn’t leave much room for extremely rare…
>
> When Rob Lavinsky or any other dealer says something is rare, I take that
> with a grain of salt. But if there are multiple terms for rarity, then they
> have to have objective definitions to be useful. I do not think that saying
> that only items from a single location can be extremely rare or rare gives
> much wiggle room and isn’t helpful.
>
> What would you say for charoite? Is it rare? What about tanzanite?  I see
> them all the time, so I wouldn’t think so, but they really only come from
> one site/regional locality on the planet, so they do strike me as being
> rare in the evolution of minerals on Earth.
>
> To pick on Rob a bit more I looked at the latest MineralAuctions and find
> the word rare used, well, not rarely…
>
> Morganite is listed as rare, but it looks to me like there are hundreds of
> localities on all continents.
> Cookeite is listed as rare, but seems to be found in even more locations
> than morganite.
> Schorl with Cleavelandite is listed as rare, which just seems silly. I’ve
> got a couple specimens that I got for free!
> Calcite!!! that fluoresces from Ohio is called rare. In this case, the
> specimen isn’t even that fluorescent, but fluorescent calcite is hardly
> rare no matter how you spin it.
> Faden Quartz is listed as rare from Arkansas. Quartz certainly isn’t rare
> there, but is faden quartz?
> Tourmaline is listed as coming from a rare locale. What does THAT mean? If
> I look at that mine, almost all the pictures are of tourmaline, so why is
> it rare?
> Turquoise is listed as being RARE from Arizona. REALLY? How do they write
> that with a straight face? There are ~40 localities for it in Arizona. How
> is that rare?
> Magnetite! is listed as being rare from California. Mindat wont even show
> me how many places it is found, but it is listed as being found in 17,794
> localities. How can it be rare anywhere?
> Colemanite - this one is also called a rare locale, and it might actually
> be correct since it is on National Park Land and no one can actually
> extract any more. But is it really rare? doubtful.
>
> Forget Rob, what about my own specimens?
>
> Tunisite? 5 localities listed. Seems rare to me, but it is on 3
> continents. Fairly limited? bah.
> Lobanovite? There are at least 6 localities, but they are all within 30 km
> of each other…
> Zdenĕkite? 4 localities, plus the name has funny characters in it. Seems
> pretty rare.
> Shkatulkalite? 2 localities. Have we reached extremely rare yet?
> What about Chlorophoenicite? It is only found at Franklin/Sterling Hill,
> and it is pretty hard to find even there. Is that extremely rare, because I
> have 5 specimens of it… Just because I can buy it doesn’t mean it isn’t
> rare. What about esperite? It was really only found in one spot in the
> Franklin Mine, but again, if you want it, it is out there to buy.
>
> I guess my point is that when dealers say something is rare, it probably
> isn’t. But when *you* say it is rare, it is probably restricted to a single
> place and isn’t common at that place. I personally don’t think that either
> definition is particularly useful. (Although if someone can call calcite
> rare, and they aren’t talking about a moon rock, I don’t think I trust
> them) I agree that esperite and chlorophoenicite are rare, possibly even
> extremely rare, but I still think the others I listed are rare in the grand
> scheme of things.
>
> Doug
>
> > On Jul 20, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Andrew,
> > Thank you for sharing your point of view.
> > There are not many books that indicate if a mineral is to be considered
> > "rare" or not. One that I know is "The Complete Mineral Index for
> > Collectors", printed by Lapis (first edition in 2015). They use x =
> fairly
> > limited distribution, xx = rare, and xxx = extremely rare.
> > If you know of others, please let me know.
> >
> > Regarding benitoite, I'm afraid I have to disagree. Check the locality
> list
> > on Mindat: https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> > More specifically, in San Benito County, benitoite used to be common at
> the
> > type locality. Meanwhile, that locality has been collected & mined for a
> > long time and extensively, so most likely benitoite is a rare find there
> > and now. But at the other Mine you mentioned, it can still be found
> today,
> > by all who go there, because it's almost everywhere (I've been there a
> few
> > times myself).
> > So contrary to what certain people (dealers?) might want to make you
> think,
> > benitoite is a common mineral there. Consequently, IMHO you can not call
> it
> > rare on a locality basis, and considering the number of specimens found
> to
> > date, neither on a worldwide basis. I would call the status of benitoite
> as
> > "fairly limited in distribution", even though the Lapis book has it as
> xx.
> >
> > More in general, I think it is better practice to specify why something
> is
> > being called "rare". If one only takes into account the number of
> specimens
> > known for a mineral species, that is a whole different approach than
> saying
> > "calcite is rare at that locality" because it is the wrong geologic
> setting
> > for calcite. I fully agree a statement like "calcite is extremely rare at
> > this location" is valid.
> >
> > I assume we all agree that minerals only known by one specimen; are to be
> > considered extremely rare in any way.
> > On a worldwide basis, at what number of specimens a mineral changes
> status
> > from extremely rare to rare, and from rare to a "fairly limited
> > distribution", and further down to "common", is something that is open
> for
> > discussion, of course.
> > Cheers, Herwig
> >
> >
> >
> > Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 16:23 schreef Andrew Turner <turnea55 at hotmail.com
> >:
> >
> >> Typically, when mineral collectors discuss something being "rare," they
> >> are referring to the mineral only being found in very few locations or
> >> being found in several locations but not being very common at any of
> them.
> >>
> >> In both instances, benitoite would be considered rare.  It is only found
> >> really at 3 locations, the Benitoite Mine, an adjacent mine (where it is
> >> very rare), and an abstract locality in Japan where it is very small.
> Even
> >> at the Benitoite Mine it is rather difficult to find (I've collected at
> the
> >> mine) and the mine is small.  So, yes, many mineral collectors have a
> >> specimen from there, but it is essentially a one locality mineral which
> >> makes it rare.   This isn't much different than red beryl which is
> found in
> >> 3 locations in the Thomas Range, 2-3 locations in the Wah Wah Mountains
> to
> >> the south, and an abstract NM location.  Taaffeite would fall into the
> >> other category, it is found in several locations but exceedingly rare to
> >> find at any of them.  In all those cases, it is different than something
> >> like Okanoganite or Tiptopite which are not only one locality minerals,
> but
> >> they are exceptionally rare even at that one location.
> >>
> >> Oftentimes, collectors also call something rare if it is a fairly common
> >> mineral but phenomenal specimens are only found in 1-2 locations.  I
> have
> >> heard adamite from the Ojuela Mine referred to as being rare.  Adamite
> is
> >> found in many arsenic bearing lead and silver deposits, but the
> specimens
> >> from Ojuela are probably the best in the world.  Only other place that
> is
> >> even close to that quality is Gold Hill, UT.  So, yes, you can collect
> >> adamite everywhere, but nothing of the quality of the Mexican pieces.
> >>
> >> Andrew Turner
> >> Salt Lake City, UT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on behalf
> of
> >> Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:20 PM
> >> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
> <
> >> rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became
> ground
> >> zero for a rare gemstone
> >>
> >> Talking about exaggerated ... benitoite being one of the rarest
> minerals on
> >> earth?
> >> Most mineral collectors have at least one specimen in their
> collections, so
> >> I would not call that rare!
> >>
> >> On the other hand, it was neat to see that old newspaper clip
> advertising
> >> the newly found gemstone!
> >> Cheers, Herwig
> >>
> >> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 05:00 schreef Paul <etchplain at att.net>:
> >>
> >>> How San Benito County became ground zero for a rare gemstone
> >>> Published 07/17/2021 BenitoLink Reporter, Robert Eliason
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbenitolink.com%2Fhow-san-benito-county-became-ground-zero-for-a-rare-gemstone%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C51f6213deabf41618af308d94b2d7898%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637623480937397284%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=7iekO30h9pIT%2BMG1C3Fy3nhOdaVTjr1XUGzUn7dEJ0M%3D&reserved=0
> >>>
> >>> A chance discovery in 1907 yielded a unique precious mineral;
> >>> now the public can go look for samples on Saturdays.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yours,
> >>>
> >>> Paul H.
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