[Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became ground zero for a rare gemstone

Sat Jul 24 22:17:39 PDT 2021

Stephen,
OK, we're talking here about a mineral and its availability to all
collectors on a worldwide scale.
The following has numbers that are just an indication, they will differ for
most people due to their point of view.

I think we all agree a mineral is extremely rare if only one or a few
specimens are known. Say max. 5 specimens.
We could say a mineral is very rare if up to a hundred specimens are known.
We could say a mineral is rare if less than 500 (or 1000) specimens are
known.
And so on ...

Very common minerals on the other hand, are minerals that are found
frequently in the field, like calcite, quartz, and members of the feldspar
family.
Cheers, Herwig

Op zo 25 jul. 2021 om 01:59 schreef Stephen Shimatzki <sjs132 at gmail.com>:

> There seems to be more than 15 images of  mcgovernite on Google images.  So
> it is no longer rare?
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 12:42 AM Herwig Pelckmans <
> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Doug,
> > To me, mcgovernite is indeed a very rare mineral. Only 15 photos of
> > specimens on Mindat. That is another indication of how rare something is
> > (or at least how frequently a mineral has been up for sale).
> >
> > Regarding the localities you mentioned: those are indeed the source of
> many
> > rare minerals!
> > And there is always a good chance you might find a new mineral!
> > Cheers, Herwig
> >
> > Op wo 21 jul. 2021 om 03:23 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>:
> >
> > > Herwig,
> > >
> > > McGovernite? I’ve got 3 of those as well.
> > >
> > > So apparently if you want to collect “rare" minerals, apparently one
> way
> > > to do it is to collect from a oddball locations with a lot of minerals,
> > > because some of them are going to be rare!  Since I collect from
> > > Franklin/SH, Långban and Mt St Hilaire, there are a lot of rarities to
> be
> > > found.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > > > On Jul 20, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> > > herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Doug,
> > > > Thank you for your detailed reply. Your message shows there is more
> to
> > > the
> > > > usage of "rare" than we normally think of.
> > > > As Andrew confirmed, it is very important to add a context to every
> > usage
> > > > of rare.
> > > >
> > > > I will not talk about the descriptions of Rob and his crew. It would
> > take
> > > > us too far.
> > > >
> > > > Let'slook at some of your examples. You mention charoite, the
> locality
> > > list
> > > > is here: https://www.mindat.org/min-972.html#autoanchor21
> > > > I guess we can call this a strictly Russian mineral! :-)
> > > >
> > > > So yes, the number of localities is very limited, so you could say it
> > is
> > > a
> > > > mineral that is very rarely encountered at a locality. But are
> > specimens
> > > of
> > > > charoite a rare sight on mineral shows across the world? I don't
> think
> > > so!
> > > > So to me, charoite is not a rare mineral, for almost all collectors
> > have
> > > > seen it and were able to buy a specimen if they wanted.
> > > > Same goes for tanzanite.(which by the way is a variety of zoisite,
> and
> > > not
> > > > a mineral species of its own).
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the localities where benitoite has been found, there are
> more
> > > > than 2-3. See https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> > > > But if you wanted to say that there are/were only 2 or 3 localities
> > where
> > > > benitoite was quite common, then I would agree with you.
> > > >
> > > > Let me quote what the Lapis book has to say:
> > > > *Rare*: known only from a few localities or only in restricted
> amounts
> > > > (examples Eulytine and Schoonerite), or just from a single locality,
> > yet
> > > > occurring there somewhat more frequent (examples alIanpringite and
> > > > mcgovernite).
> > > > *Extremely rare*: confirmed until now only on a few samples (examples
> > > > imhofite and ophirite). This status might decrease with time, as new
> > > > locations are found.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers, Herwig
> > > >
> > > > Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 21:54 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu
> >:
> > > >
> > > >> Herwig,
> > > >>
> > > >> I respectfully disagree with you. Let me argue it backwards.
> > > >>
> > > >> If benitoite, which is only really found in 2-3 locations in the
> > entire
> > > >> world, is classified as “fairly limited distribution”, that implies
> > that
> > > >> for something to be rare, it has to be at fewer than 2-3 places in
> the
> > > >> world. That doesn’t leave much room for extremely rare…
> > > >>
> > > >> When Rob Lavinsky or any other dealer says something is rare, I take
> > > that
> > > >> with a grain of salt. But if there are multiple terms for rarity,
> then
> > > they
> > > >> have to have objective definitions to be useful. I do not think that
> > > saying
> > > >> that only items from a single location can be extremely rare or rare
> > > gives
> > > >> much wiggle room and isn’t helpful.
> > > >>
> > > >> What would you say for charoite? Is it rare? What about tanzanite?
> I
> > > see
> > > >> them all the time, so I wouldn’t think so, but they really only come
> > > from
> > > >> one site/regional locality on the planet, so they do strike me as
> > being
> > > >> rare in the evolution of minerals on Earth.
> > > >>
> > > >> To pick on Rob a bit more I looked at the latest MineralAuctions and
> > > find
> > > >> the word rare used, well, not rarely…
> > > >>
> > > >> Morganite is listed as rare, but it looks to me like there are
> > hundreds
> > > of
> > > >> localities on all continents.
> > > >> Cookeite is listed as rare, but seems to be found in even more
> > locations
> > > >> than morganite.
> > > >> Schorl with Cleavelandite is listed as rare, which just seems silly.
> > > I’ve
> > > >> got a couple specimens that I got for free!
> > > >> Calcite!!! that fluoresces from Ohio is called rare. In this case,
> the
> > > >> specimen isn’t even that fluorescent, but fluorescent calcite is
> > hardly
> > > >> rare no matter how you spin it.
> > > >> Faden Quartz is listed as rare from Arkansas. Quartz certainly isn’t
> > > rare
> > > >> there, but is faden quartz?
> > > >> Tourmaline is listed as coming from a rare locale. What does THAT
> > mean?
> > > If
> > > >> I look at that mine, almost all the pictures are of tourmaline, so
> why
> > > is
> > > >> it rare?
> > > >> Turquoise is listed as being RARE from Arizona. REALLY? How do they
> > > write
> > > >> that with a straight face? There are ~40 localities for it in
> Arizona.
> > > How
> > > >> is that rare?
> > > >> Magnetite! is listed as being rare from California. Mindat wont even
> > > show
> > > >> me how many places it is found, but it is listed as being found in
> > > 17,794
> > > >> localities. How can it be rare anywhere?
> > > >> Colemanite - this one is also called a rare locale, and it might
> > > actually
> > > >> be correct since it is on National Park Land and no one can actually
> > > >> extract any more. But is it really rare? doubtful.
> > > >>
> > > >> Forget Rob, what about my own specimens?
> > > >>
> > > >> Tunisite? 5 localities listed. Seems rare to me, but it is on 3
> > > >> continents. Fairly limited? bah.
> > > >> Lobanovite? There are at least 6 localities, but they are all within
> > 30
> > > km
> > > >> of each other…
> > > >> Zdenĕkite? 4 localities, plus the name has funny characters in it.
> > Seems
> > > >> pretty rare.
> > > >> Shkatulkalite? 2 localities. Have we reached extremely rare yet?
> > > >> What about Chlorophoenicite? It is only found at Franklin/Sterling
> > Hill,
> > > >> and it is pretty hard to find even there. Is that extremely rare,
> > > because I
> > > >> have 5 specimens of it… Just because I can buy it doesn’t mean it
> > isn’t
> > > >> rare. What about esperite? It was really only found in one spot in
> the
> > > >> Franklin Mine, but again, if you want it, it is out there to buy.
> > > >>
> > > >> I guess my point is that when dealers say something is rare, it
> > probably
> > > >> isn’t. But when *you* say it is rare, it is probably restricted to a
> > > single
> > > >> place and isn’t common at that place. I personally don’t think that
> > > either
> > > >> definition is particularly useful. (Although if someone can call
> > calcite
> > > >> rare, and they aren’t talking about a moon rock, I don’t think I
> trust
> > > >> them) I agree that esperite and chlorophoenicite are rare, possibly
> > even
> > > >> extremely rare, but I still think the others I listed are rare in
> the
> > > grand
> > > >> scheme of things.
> > > >>
> > > >> Doug
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Jul 20, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> > > >> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Dear Andrew,
> > > >>> Thank you for sharing your point of view.
> > > >>> There are not many books that indicate if a mineral is to be
> > considered
> > > >>> "rare" or not. One that I know is "The Complete Mineral Index for
> > > >>> Collectors", printed by Lapis (first edition in 2015). They use x =
> > > >> fairly
> > > >>> limited distribution, xx = rare, and xxx = extremely rare.
> > > >>> If you know of others, please let me know.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regarding benitoite, I'm afraid I have to disagree. Check the
> > locality
> > > >> list
> > > >>> on Mindat: https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> > > >>> More specifically, in San Benito County, benitoite used to be
> common
> > at
> > > >> the
> > > >>> type locality. Meanwhile, that locality has been collected & mined
> > for
> > > a
> > > >>> long time and extensively, so most likely benitoite is a rare find
> > > there
> > > >>> and now. But at the other Mine you mentioned, it can still be found
> > > >> today,
> > > >>> by all who go there, because it's almost everywhere (I've been
> there
> > a
> > > >> few
> > > >>> times myself).
> > > >>> So contrary to what certain people (dealers?) might want to make
> you
> > > >> think,
> > > >>> benitoite is a common mineral there. Consequently, IMHO you can not
> > > call
> > > >> it
> > > >>> rare on a locality basis, and considering the number of specimens
> > found
> > > >> to
> > > >>> date, neither on a worldwide basis. I would call the status of
> > > benitoite
> > > >> as
> > > >>> "fairly limited in distribution", even though the Lapis book has it
> > as
> > > >> xx.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> More in general, I think it is better practice to specify why
> > something
> > > >> is
> > > >>> being called "rare". If one only takes into account the number of
> > > >> specimens
> > > >>> known for a mineral species, that is a whole different approach
> than
> > > >> saying
> > > >>> "calcite is rare at that locality" because it is the wrong geologic
> > > >> setting
> > > >>> for calcite. I fully agree a statement like "calcite is extremely
> > rare
> > > at
> > > >>> this location" is valid.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I assume we all agree that minerals only known by one specimen; are
> > to
> > > be
> > > >>> considered extremely rare in any way.
> > > >>> On a worldwide basis, at what number of specimens a mineral changes
> > > >> status
> > > >>> from extremely rare to rare, and from rare to a "fairly limited
> > > >>> distribution", and further down to "common", is something that is
> > open
> > > >> for
> > > >>> discussion, of course.
> > > >>> Cheers, Herwig
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 16:23 schreef Andrew Turner <
> > > turnea55 at hotmail.com
> > > >>> :
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Typically, when mineral collectors discuss something being "rare,"
> > > they
> > > >>>> are referring to the mineral only being found in very few
> locations
> > or
> > > >>>> being found in several locations but not being very common at any
> of
> > > >> them.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> In both instances, benitoite would be considered rare.  It is only
> > > found
> > > >>>> really at 3 locations, the Benitoite Mine, an adjacent mine (where
> > it
> > > is
> > > >>>> very rare), and an abstract locality in Japan where it is very
> > small.
> > > >> Even
> > > >>>> at the Benitoite Mine it is rather difficult to find (I've
> collected
> > > at
> > > >> the
> > > >>>> mine) and the mine is small.  So, yes, many mineral collectors
> have
> > a
> > > >>>> specimen from there, but it is essentially a one locality mineral
> > > which
> > > >>>> makes it rare.   This isn't much different than red beryl which is
> > > >> found in
> > > >>>> 3 locations in the Thomas Range, 2-3 locations in the Wah Wah
> > > Mountains
> > > >> to
> > > >>>> the south, and an abstract NM location.  Taaffeite would fall into
> > the
> > > >>>> other category, it is found in several locations but exceedingly
> > rare
> > > to
> > > >>>> find at any of them.  In all those cases, it is different than
> > > something
> > > >>>> like Okanoganite or Tiptopite which are not only one locality
> > > minerals,
> > > >> but
> > > >>>> they are exceptionally rare even at that one location.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Oftentimes, collectors also call something rare if it is a fairly
> > > common
> > > >>>> mineral but phenomenal specimens are only found in 1-2
> locations.  I
> > > >> have
> > > >>>> heard adamite from the Ojuela Mine referred to as being rare.
> > Adamite
> > > >> is
> > > >>>> found in many arsenic bearing lead and silver deposits, but the
> > > >> specimens
> > > >>>> from Ojuela are probably the best in the world.  Only other place
> > that
> > > >> is
> > > >>>> even close to that quality is Gold Hill, UT.  So, yes, you can
> > collect
> > > >>>> adamite everywhere, but nothing of the quality of the Mexican
> > pieces.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Andrew Turner
> > > >>>> Salt Lake City, UT
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ________________________________
> > > >>>> From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on
> > > behalf
> > > >> of
> > > >>>> Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
> > > >>>> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:20 PM
> > > >>>> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> > > collectors
> > > >> <
> > > >>>> rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California,
> became
> > > >> ground
> > > >>>> zero for a rare gemstone
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Talking about exaggerated ... benitoite being one of the rarest
> > > >> minerals on
> > > >>>> earth?
> > > >>>> Most mineral collectors have at least one specimen in their
> > > >> collections, so
> > > >>>> I would not call that rare!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On the other hand, it was neat to see that old newspaper clip
> > > >> advertising
> > > >>>> the newly found gemstone!
> > > >>>> Cheers, Herwig
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 05:00 schreef Paul <etchplain at att.net>:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> How San Benito County became ground zero for a rare gemstone
> > > >>>>> Published 07/17/2021 BenitoLink Reporter, Robert Eliason
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
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> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> A chance discovery in 1907 yielded a unique precious mineral;
> > > >>>>> now the public can go look for samples on Saturdays.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Yours,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Paul H.
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