[Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became ground zero for a rare gemstone

Sat Jul 24 16:57:49 PDT 2021

There seems to be more than 15 images of  mcgovernite on Google images.  So
it is no longer rare?

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 12:42 AM Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Doug,
> To me, mcgovernite is indeed a very rare mineral. Only 15 photos of
> specimens on Mindat. That is another indication of how rare something is
> (or at least how frequently a mineral has been up for sale).
>
> Regarding the localities you mentioned: those are indeed the source of many
> rare minerals!
> And there is always a good chance you might find a new mineral!
> Cheers, Herwig
>
> Op wo 21 jul. 2021 om 03:23 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>:
>
> > Herwig,
> >
> > McGovernite? I’ve got 3 of those as well.
> >
> > So apparently if you want to collect “rare" minerals, apparently one way
> > to do it is to collect from a oddball locations with a lot of minerals,
> > because some of them are going to be rare!  Since I collect from
> > Franklin/SH, Långban and Mt St Hilaire, there are a lot of rarities to be
> > found.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > > On Jul 20, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> > herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Doug,
> > > Thank you for your detailed reply. Your message shows there is more to
> > the
> > > usage of "rare" than we normally think of.
> > > As Andrew confirmed, it is very important to add a context to every
> usage
> > > of rare.
> > >
> > > I will not talk about the descriptions of Rob and his crew. It would
> take
> > > us too far.
> > >
> > > Let'slook at some of your examples. You mention charoite, the locality
> > list
> > > is here: https://www.mindat.org/min-972.html#autoanchor21
> > > I guess we can call this a strictly Russian mineral! :-)
> > >
> > > So yes, the number of localities is very limited, so you could say it
> is
> > a
> > > mineral that is very rarely encountered at a locality. But are
> specimens
> > of
> > > charoite a rare sight on mineral shows across the world? I don't think
> > so!
> > > So to me, charoite is not a rare mineral, for almost all collectors
> have
> > > seen it and were able to buy a specimen if they wanted.
> > > Same goes for tanzanite.(which by the way is a variety of zoisite, and
> > not
> > > a mineral species of its own).
> > >
> > > Regarding the localities where benitoite has been found, there are more
> > > than 2-3. See https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> > > But if you wanted to say that there are/were only 2 or 3 localities
> where
> > > benitoite was quite common, then I would agree with you.
> > >
> > > Let me quote what the Lapis book has to say:
> > > *Rare*: known only from a few localities or only in restricted amounts
> > > (examples Eulytine and Schoonerite), or just from a single locality,
> yet
> > > occurring there somewhat more frequent (examples alIanpringite and
> > > mcgovernite).
> > > *Extremely rare*: confirmed until now only on a few samples (examples
> > > imhofite and ophirite). This status might decrease with time, as new
> > > locations are found.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Herwig
> > >
> > > Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 21:54 schreef Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>:
> > >
> > >> Herwig,
> > >>
> > >> I respectfully disagree with you. Let me argue it backwards.
> > >>
> > >> If benitoite, which is only really found in 2-3 locations in the
> entire
> > >> world, is classified as “fairly limited distribution”, that implies
> that
> > >> for something to be rare, it has to be at fewer than 2-3 places in the
> > >> world. That doesn’t leave much room for extremely rare…
> > >>
> > >> When Rob Lavinsky or any other dealer says something is rare, I take
> > that
> > >> with a grain of salt. But if there are multiple terms for rarity, then
> > they
> > >> have to have objective definitions to be useful. I do not think that
> > saying
> > >> that only items from a single location can be extremely rare or rare
> > gives
> > >> much wiggle room and isn’t helpful.
> > >>
> > >> What would you say for charoite? Is it rare? What about tanzanite?  I
> > see
> > >> them all the time, so I wouldn’t think so, but they really only come
> > from
> > >> one site/regional locality on the planet, so they do strike me as
> being
> > >> rare in the evolution of minerals on Earth.
> > >>
> > >> To pick on Rob a bit more I looked at the latest MineralAuctions and
> > find
> > >> the word rare used, well, not rarely…
> > >>
> > >> Morganite is listed as rare, but it looks to me like there are
> hundreds
> > of
> > >> localities on all continents.
> > >> Cookeite is listed as rare, but seems to be found in even more
> locations
> > >> than morganite.
> > >> Schorl with Cleavelandite is listed as rare, which just seems silly.
> > I’ve
> > >> got a couple specimens that I got for free!
> > >> Calcite!!! that fluoresces from Ohio is called rare. In this case, the
> > >> specimen isn’t even that fluorescent, but fluorescent calcite is
> hardly
> > >> rare no matter how you spin it.
> > >> Faden Quartz is listed as rare from Arkansas. Quartz certainly isn’t
> > rare
> > >> there, but is faden quartz?
> > >> Tourmaline is listed as coming from a rare locale. What does THAT
> mean?
> > If
> > >> I look at that mine, almost all the pictures are of tourmaline, so why
> > is
> > >> it rare?
> > >> Turquoise is listed as being RARE from Arizona. REALLY? How do they
> > write
> > >> that with a straight face? There are ~40 localities for it in Arizona.
> > How
> > >> is that rare?
> > >> Magnetite! is listed as being rare from California. Mindat wont even
> > show
> > >> me how many places it is found, but it is listed as being found in
> > 17,794
> > >> localities. How can it be rare anywhere?
> > >> Colemanite - this one is also called a rare locale, and it might
> > actually
> > >> be correct since it is on National Park Land and no one can actually
> > >> extract any more. But is it really rare? doubtful.
> > >>
> > >> Forget Rob, what about my own specimens?
> > >>
> > >> Tunisite? 5 localities listed. Seems rare to me, but it is on 3
> > >> continents. Fairly limited? bah.
> > >> Lobanovite? There are at least 6 localities, but they are all within
> 30
> > km
> > >> of each other…
> > >> Zdenĕkite? 4 localities, plus the name has funny characters in it.
> Seems
> > >> pretty rare.
> > >> Shkatulkalite? 2 localities. Have we reached extremely rare yet?
> > >> What about Chlorophoenicite? It is only found at Franklin/Sterling
> Hill,
> > >> and it is pretty hard to find even there. Is that extremely rare,
> > because I
> > >> have 5 specimens of it… Just because I can buy it doesn’t mean it
> isn’t
> > >> rare. What about esperite? It was really only found in one spot in the
> > >> Franklin Mine, but again, if you want it, it is out there to buy.
> > >>
> > >> I guess my point is that when dealers say something is rare, it
> probably
> > >> isn’t. But when *you* say it is rare, it is probably restricted to a
> > single
> > >> place and isn’t common at that place. I personally don’t think that
> > either
> > >> definition is particularly useful. (Although if someone can call
> calcite
> > >> rare, and they aren’t talking about a moon rock, I don’t think I trust
> > >> them) I agree that esperite and chlorophoenicite are rare, possibly
> even
> > >> extremely rare, but I still think the others I listed are rare in the
> > grand
> > >> scheme of things.
> > >>
> > >> Doug
> > >>
> > >>> On Jul 20, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Herwig Pelckmans <
> > >> herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Dear Andrew,
> > >>> Thank you for sharing your point of view.
> > >>> There are not many books that indicate if a mineral is to be
> considered
> > >>> "rare" or not. One that I know is "The Complete Mineral Index for
> > >>> Collectors", printed by Lapis (first edition in 2015). They use x =
> > >> fairly
> > >>> limited distribution, xx = rare, and xxx = extremely rare.
> > >>> If you know of others, please let me know.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regarding benitoite, I'm afraid I have to disagree. Check the
> locality
> > >> list
> > >>> on Mindat: https://www.mindat.org/min-624.html#autoanchor23
> > >>> More specifically, in San Benito County, benitoite used to be common
> at
> > >> the
> > >>> type locality. Meanwhile, that locality has been collected & mined
> for
> > a
> > >>> long time and extensively, so most likely benitoite is a rare find
> > there
> > >>> and now. But at the other Mine you mentioned, it can still be found
> > >> today,
> > >>> by all who go there, because it's almost everywhere (I've been there
> a
> > >> few
> > >>> times myself).
> > >>> So contrary to what certain people (dealers?) might want to make you
> > >> think,
> > >>> benitoite is a common mineral there. Consequently, IMHO you can not
> > call
> > >> it
> > >>> rare on a locality basis, and considering the number of specimens
> found
> > >> to
> > >>> date, neither on a worldwide basis. I would call the status of
> > benitoite
> > >> as
> > >>> "fairly limited in distribution", even though the Lapis book has it
> as
> > >> xx.
> > >>>
> > >>> More in general, I think it is better practice to specify why
> something
> > >> is
> > >>> being called "rare". If one only takes into account the number of
> > >> specimens
> > >>> known for a mineral species, that is a whole different approach than
> > >> saying
> > >>> "calcite is rare at that locality" because it is the wrong geologic
> > >> setting
> > >>> for calcite. I fully agree a statement like "calcite is extremely
> rare
> > at
> > >>> this location" is valid.
> > >>>
> > >>> I assume we all agree that minerals only known by one specimen; are
> to
> > be
> > >>> considered extremely rare in any way.
> > >>> On a worldwide basis, at what number of specimens a mineral changes
> > >> status
> > >>> from extremely rare to rare, and from rare to a "fairly limited
> > >>> distribution", and further down to "common", is something that is
> open
> > >> for
> > >>> discussion, of course.
> > >>> Cheers, Herwig
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 16:23 schreef Andrew Turner <
> > turnea55 at hotmail.com
> > >>> :
> > >>>
> > >>>> Typically, when mineral collectors discuss something being "rare,"
> > they
> > >>>> are referring to the mineral only being found in very few locations
> or
> > >>>> being found in several locations but not being very common at any of
> > >> them.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In both instances, benitoite would be considered rare.  It is only
> > found
> > >>>> really at 3 locations, the Benitoite Mine, an adjacent mine (where
> it
> > is
> > >>>> very rare), and an abstract locality in Japan where it is very
> small.
> > >> Even
> > >>>> at the Benitoite Mine it is rather difficult to find (I've collected
> > at
> > >> the
> > >>>> mine) and the mine is small.  So, yes, many mineral collectors have
> a
> > >>>> specimen from there, but it is essentially a one locality mineral
> > which
> > >>>> makes it rare.   This isn't much different than red beryl which is
> > >> found in
> > >>>> 3 locations in the Thomas Range, 2-3 locations in the Wah Wah
> > Mountains
> > >> to
> > >>>> the south, and an abstract NM location.  Taaffeite would fall into
> the
> > >>>> other category, it is found in several locations but exceedingly
> rare
> > to
> > >>>> find at any of them.  In all those cases, it is different than
> > something
> > >>>> like Okanoganite or Tiptopite which are not only one locality
> > minerals,
> > >> but
> > >>>> they are exceptionally rare even at that one location.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Oftentimes, collectors also call something rare if it is a fairly
> > common
> > >>>> mineral but phenomenal specimens are only found in 1-2 locations.  I
> > >> have
> > >>>> heard adamite from the Ojuela Mine referred to as being rare.
> Adamite
> > >> is
> > >>>> found in many arsenic bearing lead and silver deposits, but the
> > >> specimens
> > >>>> from Ojuela are probably the best in the world.  Only other place
> that
> > >> is
> > >>>> even close to that quality is Gold Hill, UT.  So, yes, you can
> collect
> > >>>> adamite everywhere, but nothing of the quality of the Mexican
> pieces.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Andrew Turner
> > >>>> Salt Lake City, UT
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ________________________________
> > >>>> From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on
> > behalf
> > >> of
> > >>>> Herwig Pelckmans <herwig.pelckmans at gmail.com>
> > >>>> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:20 PM
> > >>>> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> > collectors
> > >> <
> > >>>> rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] How San Benito County, California, became
> > >> ground
> > >>>> zero for a rare gemstone
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Talking about exaggerated ... benitoite being one of the rarest
> > >> minerals on
> > >>>> earth?
> > >>>> Most mineral collectors have at least one specimen in their
> > >> collections, so
> > >>>> I would not call that rare!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On the other hand, it was neat to see that old newspaper clip
> > >> advertising
> > >>>> the newly found gemstone!
> > >>>> Cheers, Herwig
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 05:00 schreef Paul <etchplain at att.net>:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> How San Benito County became ground zero for a rare gemstone
> > >>>>> Published 07/17/2021 BenitoLink Reporter, Robert Eliason
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> A chance discovery in 1907 yielded a unique precious mineral;
> > >>>>> now the public can go look for samples on Saturdays.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Yours,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Paul H.
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