[Rockhounds] New name for a Canadian town called Asbestos

Tue Oct 20 10:11:16 PDT 2020

It's not that they are changing the actual mineral names.   It is more of the fact that the names are either being discredited or the mineral is later found to be chemically the same as another, already well-established, mineral.

Over the past decade or so the IMA decided to go back and try to reclassify several mineral families/groups in order to simplify them.  This was mainly due to the fact that many new minerals were being found (due to new technologies and equipment) that were very similar to each other and that many of these mineral groups were getting extremely complicated chemically.  New minerals were being found that were indistinguishable from others and were only considered new due to minor discrepancies in their chemical composition (even when the same mineral is allowed some variability).    On top of that, new technology was showing that even the accepted minerals (lepidolite is a good example) was much more complicated than the simple chemical composition shown due to solid solution, substitutions, varying valence states, etc.

So, this became a good and bad thing.  The amphiboles were a mess (and still are) as are many of the sheet silicates, micas, and clays.  However, more consolidation is going on.  This is causing some minerals to lose their names as they are lumped in with others (e.g. discredited), but is somewhat simplifying things.  Some of the more older common names are now used to describe numerous minerals even when there may be a dozen actual mineral names.

A good example of this is the lithium micas.  Most people see purple (green, gold, etc.) lithium mica and call it lepidolite.  However, that mineral name  doesn't actually exist anymore.  Unless you are a mineralogist studying these minerals (or one is named for you), you probably have no idea that there are a few dozen actual lithium micas, and probably couldn't actually name more than a few.

I don't know what the end game is here.  At one time it looked like the IMA was leaning to systematically renaming/reclassifying all minerals, kind of like what was done in organic chemistry.  You do see that at times now (i.e. hydroxylapatite listed as apatite-OH).  It would be a real challenge and cause major arguments to get rid of malachite, quartz, topaz, etc. though.

Andrew Turner
Salt Lake City, UT

________________________________
From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on behalf of Doug Bank <dougbank at alum.mit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 8:42 AM
To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New name for a Canadian town called Asbestos

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or if you are being serious. They absolutely keep changing mineral names!

Some of the minerals found in Talcville and Balmat in New York State are anthophyllite, tremolite and clino-suenoite. However, these minerals seem to change names frequently. At the very least, clino-seunoite used to be manganocummingtonite which used to be tirodite and which might be the same as parvowinchite.  Between 2010 and 2020, I think it changed names twice, which doesn’t help any of the labels in my collection.

I’d say it was a PITA, but it is even worse, because there is no good way to differentiate between all these without doing a chemical analysis, and I can tell that the few specimens I did buy that have labels are not labelled correctly in the first place.

I’m sure this is far from the only example of this kind of confusion.

Doug

> On Oct 19, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Tim Fisher <nospam at orerockon.com> wrote:
>
> At least they aren't renaming minerals like they rename lapidary rock. Or
> fossil species (my pet peeve, makes it pretty hard to find new sources when
> you don't even know if the name you're using is still "valid"). What a PITA!
>
> Tim Fisher
> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forerockon.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cb68a7f85c373483e1e2208d8750ed76a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637388053896260003%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=f6lTKRdXDjRFQW8Q2O%2B3MhAdgUa5W3ld5RYGCEnCS2Y%3D&reserved=0
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rockhounds [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com] On
> Behalf Of Alan Goldstein
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 5:12 PM
> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New name for a Canadian town called Asbestos
>
> I guess Radium Hot Springs in British Columbia will be next. Does this mean
> any mineral collected there after the town's name is changed will use
> Val-des-Sources?
>
> On a related matter, the Minerva No. 1 mine in Cave in Rock, IL operated
> from about 1945 to the mid 1970s. It was reopened by Ozark-Mahoning in ~1987
> as the Ozark-Mahoning No. 1 mine. But specimens were still listed as being
> from the Minerva. Had this been accepted by collectors, it would be possible
> to date the specimens as being new or old. But I guess 25 years after the
> mine closed, it doesn't matter that much.
>
> Alan G.
>
> Sent from Mail<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cb68a7f85c373483e1e2208d8750ed76a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637388053896260003%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=C7X75FxKynVwvyV8g0ozzWXO709fIbM%2F3FZwu51yKb8%3D&reserved=0> for Windows
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>
> From: Kreigh Tomaszewski<mailto:kreigh at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 7:57 PM
> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> collectors<mailto:rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
> Subject: [Rockhounds] New name for a Canadian town called Asbestos
>
> *The small Canadian town of Asbestos that decided it needed a rebrand has
> done away with the name derived from its mining heritage.*
>
> The Quebec town, home to some 7,000 people, voted for "Val-des-Sources" as
> its new moniker.
>
> The town was once the location of the world's largest asbestos mine.
>
> It was given the English name for the mineral - rather than the French
> * amiante *- in the late 19th Century.
>
> But the town's council said the connotation hindered its ability to attract
> foreign investment, and announced last November that the hunt was on for a
> new name.
>
> The town, about 150 km (95 miles) east of Montreal, finally announced the
> winning title with some fanfare on Monday evening.
>
> It was picked after a lengthy consultation and a vote by town residents,
> including those as young as 14.
>
> About half the town residents eligible to cast ballots did so.
> Val-des-Sources won with just over 51% of the vote in the third round of
> voting.
>
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