[Rockhounds] Auralite-23 Bather, Blather, Blather

[Rik Dillen]

Being on vacation I followed this topic from the sidelines, but I want to
comment on some details.

(@ = 'Axel wrote'; ***** to ********** = 'Rik's comment')

@
My club, the MKA, is ambitious when it comes to identifying minerals (they
call it 'determination' but in my book that means finding out the borders of
the parameters that define a NEW mineral!).
*****
We have had that semantic discussion in extenso before. In Dutch I find more
than 15 different definitions of the terms  'determinatie' (determination)
and 'identificatie' (Identification). Determination means (e.g. in biology)
'finding out what species/category etc. something belongs to', whereas
'identificatie' (Identification) means 'providing a label on a known
specimen'. That's why we called our service 'determination service', and not
'identification service'. But IMHO that discussion is not very relevant.
**********
@
.(SNIP).
That show is organized for collectors only, although we see wizards and
witches and paranormal geohealers pass through our halls every year. So, my
logical suggestion to the board was: organize a mineral show for the
collectors, but do the same for the healers, witches, floaters, wizards,
nincompoops and petromagicians in the adjoining hall.
***** 
There are already several such shows organised yearly in the same building;
it would make no sense to organise even one more. Furthermore: we can barely
find people to organise our regular show, let alone a second one. Who would
organise it?
**********
@
Do it under a different name if you 're too ashamed and you don't want your
reputation as scientific organisation tarnished,
***** 
'Too ashamed to do it' is not the appropriate statement, rather 'proud to
comply with our objectives'. If we would organise an 'alternative' show
under another flag it would simply be dishonest towards our club members and
not in compliance with our by-laws.
**********
@
but make sure that people can buy a ticked for BOTH shows at a slightly
reduced price. You'll get at least five times the income from the admission,
but also your invited dealers will see MUCH more visitors passing their
tables. Other dealers will hear of that and your show will grow...
***** 
. and the public that we really want (genuine mineral and fossil collectors)
would run away (as they do in some other European shows). On the other hand
we have the example of the yearly Gent mineral show, where only genuine
geological specimens are allowed (no jewelry, no art objects, no esoteric
stuff). It's a relief for a real mineral collector to visit such a show,
completely devoted to earth sciences.  And after almost 50 years they are
still alive and kicking doing it that way. What we do is already a big
compromise.

**********  
@
They 
*****
Axel means me (Rik Dillen) (et al.)
**********
@
almost ate me alive... THE IDEA that we would be associated with the softly
levitating rock-licking mystics is unbearable to the hardcore scientifically
oriented board members. 
Silly, no?
*****  
I would rather say: consistent. BTW I am not a cannibal, and meat should be
well done. (LOL)
**********  
@
We could buy a Raman spectrometer EVERY year
*****
That is not true, but I don't think this forum is appropriate to discuss the
financial aspects of our club (which BTW are published on our website,
accessible for all our members).

***********  **********

As soon as some conditions are fulfilled I would be the first to advise
positively on the purchase of a Raman-microscope. But at present that is
still not the case.
.	I would only go for a decent (semi-)professional instrument, not for
some kind of toy
.	It should be a Raman-MICROSCOPE, with a good lateral resolution
.	Someone would have to build the necessary knowledge and skills, not
only to operate and maintain the instrument, but also to interpret the
spectra (which in many cases is not simple at all!) and make a report. 
.	That person should be willing to analyse a few hundred samples
yearly within a reasonable time frame (some weeks after arrival of the
sample), and this with a long time reliability and commitment.
.	The total cost of ownership (purchase of the instrument +
accessories, software, databases, maintenance, repair, depreciation.) should
be such that it is cheaper than subcontracting the work. At present that is
certainly not the case, as a Raman-analysis costs us only few euro/dollars.
Moreover, if necessary both SEM-EDX and XRD are available immediately on the
same sample, which we could never realise.

So I'm not opposed at all to the purchase of a Raman-microscope, but only if
that would be at a lower cost than the subcontracting we are doing right now
AND if the necessary volunteer(s) are available to keep it running
efficiently on the long term.
Furthermore it is true that I personally would never accept to tarnish the
good reputation of our club by getting involved in esotery or the like.

Rik Dillen. from a remote location :>)
https://linklock.titanhq.com/analyse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.minerant.org&data=eJx1zL0OwiAUQOGngc2bSiu6MOjQxcHVtXKJEP7MhQbl6e3oYnK2k3xayT1OJ7HIEYej4Kgoa2_zmrAAkus9GNA58qjk-zBbut_6dXfhRZHzgC4Ek9g0FP9JpsLDcPoBtvFHW5Wt9cXGMxPzVmsNokuGllQh0_MLDiw0Ug%%

P.S. It would be nice to allow for html messages on this list instead of
txt-only: it would be far more comfortable e.g. to highlight or discriminate
between citations and  comments.

*******************************************************  

-----Original Message-----
From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> On Behalf Of
axel.emmermann at telenet.be
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 6:45 PM
To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Auralite-23 Bather, Blather, Blather

Gary,

My club, the MKA, is ambitious when it comes to identifying minerals (they
call it 'determination' but in my book that means finding out the borders of
the parameters that define a NEW mineral!). We have the knowledge and good
addresses of people who have access to XRF, RDX, and other acronyms from the
second part of the alphabet.
We do however pay for that... our members pay a small fee (copay?) and the
club pays the rest. 
We have some spectrometers and other small instruments, mostly for gemology,
but when it comes to buying a Raman-spectrometer they find that too
expensive.
OK, I can see that, but we get the bulk of out income from our annual
mineral show (which has been canceled twice, due to COVID! So we have to be
frugal in our spending).
That show is organized for collectors only, although we see wizards and
witches and paranormal geohealers pass through our halls every year. So, my
logical suggestion to the board was: organize a mineral show for the
collectors, but do the same for the healers, witches, floaters, wizards,
nincompoops and petromagicians in the adjoining hall. Do it under a
different name if you 're too ashamed and you don't want your reputation as
scientific organisation tarnished, but make sure that people can buy a
ticked for BOTH shows at a slightly reduced price. You'll get at least five
times the income from the admission, but also your invited dealers will see
MUCH more visitors passing their tables. Other dealers will hear of that and
your show will grow...
They almost ate me alive... THE IDEA that we would be associated with the
softly levitating rock-licking mystics is unbearable to the hardcore
scientifically oriented board members. 
Silly, no? We could buy a Raman spectrometer EVERY year and, while doing so,
pluck away a few lost souls from the dark side and bring them into the
light...
People seem to forget that ALL mineralogy started with superstition. ALL the
gems in the British crown jewels are meant to be healing stones in the time
they were made.
Nobody makes fun of 'Lizzy' when she wears all that stuff on her head.
So we're proud but poor....
Cheers
Axel

Axel Emmermann
Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen
Mineralogical Society of Antwerp
Werkgroep Fluorescerende mineralen
Workgroup Fluorescent Minerals
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