[Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth Deposits

Tue Jun 23 14:24:42 PDT 2020

Andrew, I appreciate your analysis. It causes me to wonder about the phosphate deposits in Florida (mostly former) and Morrocco (current).Would they have concentrated rare earths? I know the Florida deposits were processed after mining, and before shipment. If the Rare Earths were removed during processing,I wonder if the wastes were just dumped or were they processed further to recover some of the other elements present? Perhaps we are overlooking some valuable concentrates that were just regarded as waste, back in the day?Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------From: Andrew Turner <turnea55 at hotmail.com> Date: 6/23/20  3:57 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: linda at middleearthminerals.com, rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com, pmodreski at aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth Deposits Part of it is the phosphate/apatite structure that allows for it.  Also, the various ionic charges and sizes within the mineral allow for multiple elemental substitutions.In a calcium uranium phosphate (autunite, phurcalite, etc.), Cs+ or Sr2+ can potentially substitute for the calcium.  Plutonium (which is a 6+ but can have other charges) can possibly substitute for uranium (which can also be 6+).  Plutonium 5+ or even potentially Tc7+ can also substitute into the structure, possible for phosphorus (5+).  There are considerable possibilities, which is why phosphate minerals can be "trash can" minerals.  Uranium also replaces calcium in phosphorite deposits (e.g. Phosphoria Formation), and phosphate rich rocks also can extract uranium in solution from seawater.In South Dakota, the center of several pegmatites (Tip Top Mine being the most famous), have a core of phosphate.  This is where you get the really weird stuff (tiptopite, montgomeryite, hurealite, switzerite, messelite, etc.) where very incompatible elements, like lithium, berylium, and rare earths like to congregate.  Hope this helps.Andrew Turner________________________________From: linda at middleearthminerals.com <linda at middleearthminerals.com>Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:48 AMTo: 'Andrew Turner' <turnea55 at hotmail.com>; rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>; pmodreski at aol.com <pmodreski at aol.com>Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth DepositsSo Andrew, how would you explain the phosphate ion/apatite molecule’s ability to gobble up other atoms?  Does it have just the right spacing in its lattice or a certain flexibility in its bonds or what?For example, I find it fascinating that water’s polarity allows it to dissolve many substances.I have just enough chemistry in my head to get me into trouble!From: Andrew Turner <turnea55 at hotmail.com>Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:23 AMTo: linda at middleearthminerals.com; rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com; pmodreski at aol.comSubject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth DepositsPete,You stole my thunder with your comment...exactly right.  I conducted my Master's thesis on using apatite to contain radionuclides (plutonium, americium, cesium, etc.) from spent nuclear fuel at the Yucca Mountain site.  Phosphates are great at incorporating numerous elements into their structure.  Uranium phosphates are especially good at this.Andrew Turner, PG________________________________From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com<mailto:rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com>> on behalf of pmodreski at aol.com<mailto:pmodreski at aol.com> <pmodreski at aol.com<mailto:pmodreski at aol.com>>Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:58 AMTo: linda at middleearthminerals.com<mailto:linda at middleearthminerals.com> <linda at middleearthminerals.com<mailto:linda at middleearthminerals.com>>; rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com<mailto:rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com> <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com<mailto:rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth DepositsLinda, I haven't read the whole article, but...the phosphate is in the form of the mineral apatite, and apatite is simply a good host mineral that readily incorporates significant amounts of rare earth elements.  So if apatite is accumulating, it will accumulate rare earth elements along with it.Pete-----Original Message-----To: 'Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com<mailto:rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>>Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2020 11:14 amSubject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth DepositsI found this article very interesting.  But I am confused as to why the REYelements (rare earths and yttrium) are found with the fish fossils.Phosphorus being concentrated in deposits of previously living organisms,yes, that makes sense since phosphorus is essential to life.  But REYelements?  I did see this quote " The global change of the Cenozoic climatealso facilitated the incorporation of phosphorus-favoured elements such asREY into pelagic clay."So is it saying that phosphorus preferentially binds with REY elements?  Iwonder why that would be.  There appear to be plenty of oxides and silicatesmade with REY and not containing P.  I'm missing a piece of the puzzle here!Can anyone explain that?-----Original Message-----From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com<mailto:rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com>> On Behalf OfPaulSent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 8:25 PMTo: Rockhound List <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com<mailto:rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>>Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish and Rare Earth DepositsFossilized fish could indicate rich deposits of valuable rare-earth metalsby University of Tokyo PhysOrg, June 18. 2020https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphys.org%2Fnews%2F2020-06-fossilized-fish-rich-deposits-valuable.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0679b090fc54e0b018908d816d5e9c7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637284455291445387&sdata=bnYggkwTh5eUrPjbnRKgGSPQpHsAJQvpkUgm1%2FEU7VU%3D&reserved=0<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphys.org%2Fnews%2F2020-06-fossilized-fish-rich-deposits-valuable.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C403a2eee34cc4725453f08d816dcddc0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637284485157570062&sdata=tCKjQA98khfuUfk2N3ZxcNBco5%2Fr12%2BjCjwq6zKlsfA%3D&reserved=0>Fish fossils become buried treasure. Fossilized fish could indicate richdeposits of valuable rare-earth metals by University of Tokyo, June 18.2020 https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2020-06%2Fuot-ffb061720.php&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0679b090fc54e0b018908d816d5e9c7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637284455291445387&sdata=WYbcuFxk966jP1I157kUS5f%2BgEA0nyJjAS6nGXwBo1U%3D&reserved=0<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2020-06%2Fuot-ffb061720.php&data=02%7C01%7C%7C403a2eee34cc4725453f08d816dcddc0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637284485157580058&sdata=bqClIrevHdbI1TEbGyg3be6etMEaZQsIizuokQFEepk%3D&reserved=0>The paper is:Junichiro Ohta, Kazutaka Yasukawa, Tatsuo Nozaki, Yutaro Takaya, KazuhideMimura, Koichiro Fujinaga, Kentaro Nakamura, Yoichi Usui, Jun-Ichi Kimura,Qing Chang, and Yasuhiro Kato. Fish proliferation and rare-earthdeposition by topographically induced upwelling at the late Eocene coolingevent. Scientific Reports.https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fs41598-020-66835-8&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0679b090fc54e0b018908d816d5e9c7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637284455291445387&sdata=O6J4czKRlfU5hc1vzg6gMeYHBZ1rB3frYknKBnn9ESU%3D&reserved=0<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fs41598-020-66835-8&data=02%7C01%7C%7C403a2eee34cc4725453f08d816dcddc0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637284485157580058&sdata=4NMR0iMuk%2FLzUtm1htlzcqVLtGbiBA6W7TWMjMeM%2FHA%3D&reserved=0>Yours,Paul H._______________________________________________Rockhounds mailing listSubscription 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