[Rockhounds] Was: A field guide to finding fossils on Mars. (open access paper), NOW: life in the universe

Mon Mar 11 09:56:29 PDT 2019

Don't count out molten salt reactors. There's one right in your backyard ;) 

Tim Fisher
Http://OreRockOn.com 
Email nospam at orerockon.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rockhounds [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:36 AM
To: 'Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Was: A field guide to finding fossils on Mars. (open access paper), NOW: life in the universe

Well, if you want to see eclipses of a distant star, you need to be on the ecliptic plane of that star. You may be 1 or 2 degrees off but that's it... So you can see eclipses  in 180°/2 or 360/2/2 = 1/90th of all stars that have planets. We have found many already, many more than we expected to find.
Red dwarfs do flare and give off little UV, but they do give off X-rays to start mutations 😉

We have been lucky that Saturn and Jupiter tugged each other to the outer part of the system in their gravitational tango. That allowed for enough stuff to be pulled in and bombard us... so we got water and a moon.

I believe that there are many planets were life evolved. A fraction of that will be intelligent, given time perhaps all of it. 
Then there are the pitfalls of nature... nature made sex mandatory if you're just an animal, driven by testosterone, but extremely entertaining and pleasant as well if you're intelligent. Not only CAN you think about sex, you can hardly think of anything else. Which renders your planet overpopulated, resources overexploited, atmosphere and water poisonous, energy too scarce...
You hit the Emmermann Threshold. 
Nuclear Fusion can be started up right now. We have the means and several plants (Tokomaks, Stellerators) that are ready to be fired up. The Joint European Torus has been fired op to a plasma temperature of 500.000.000 K, far exceeding the need for heath to start fusion.
The only thing standing in the way of clean and cheap energy is the petroleum lobby (and coal lobby).  We are lied to by politicians who say that if we leave the oil based economic model, we will famish and suffer...
See? Now THAT is the Emmermann Threshold in full action.     LOL

Aloha
Axel

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> Namens J Bryan Kramer
Verzonden: zondag 10 maart 2019 19:06
Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors <rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] A field guide to finding fossils on Mars. (open access paper)

The so called Drake equation is pure speculation (or as engineers call it:
anal extraction) with zero fact or data behind it. As Astronomers are now getting a glimpse of real extrasolar planetary data they are tightening up their limits for the so called habitable zone. It looks more and more like what we have here on Earth. And less and less like what they are seeing in their data. Red Dwarf stars are crossed off the list for one. Of course they are seeing solar systems that have little resemblance to ours is other solar system like ours even exist. They cannot see terrestrial mass planets nor planets in orbits not close to their star. I think they are looking forward to the James Webb telescope if it ever gets launched.

There is quite a bit of data hoping here, these fellows WANT to find extraterrestrial live and they look at the data thru pink lenses in some cases. This flap about red dwarves is a major example. They are flare stars, their planets are tidally locked and the star puts out small amounts of radiation almost all in the infrared spectrum. No UV which is thought to give evolution a kick. And can plants function and do photosynthesis with ir radiation--it doesn't seem likely. So why would you even dream that these stars could be homes to life?

BK

“The problem isn’t that Johnny can’t read. The problem isn’t even that Johnny can’t think. The problem is that Johnny doesn’t know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.”

Thomas Sowell

J Bryan Krämer       North Florida, USA
photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 1:15 PM Axel Emmermann <axel.emmermann at telenet.be>
wrote:

> Sound thinking , Kitty 😉
> In my personal opinion, de Drake equation is nonsense. There are 
> probably far more planets than we can imagine but fewer of those are 
> perhaps capable of producing life.
> Those people who are now staggering and shouting that life isn't 
> necessarily carbon-based and that silicon is as good a candidate as 
> carbon can lean back and continue watching their favorite shows on the
> (self-proclamed) Science Channel... Ancient Aliens, Alien encounters, 
> and such... The longest stable chain that one can form with silicon is
> 8 atoms long. Not nearly enough for life... The hybridization of 
> carbon is what makes life, nothing else.
> Professor Michio Kaku should stop filling our heads with BS. There are 
> no
> 4 stages of civilization... as he cites Nikolai Kardashev. That must 
> have been the vodka speaking...
> A Type I civilization—also called a planetary civilization—can use and 
> store all of the energy available on its planet.
> A Type II civilization—also called a stellar civilization—can harness 
> the total energy of its planet's parent star (the most popular 
> hypothetical concept being the Dyson sphere—a device which would 
> encompass the entire star and transfer its energy to the planet(s)).
> A Type III civilization—also called a galactic civilization—can 
> control energy on the scale of its entire host galaxy.
> What an idiotic idea!
>
> Then why haven't we heard from another intelligent species yet???
> Because of the Emmermann Threshold. I named it after myself, because 
> nobody else would 😉
> It works like this:
> 1) evolutions favors the strongest
> 2) the strongest take care of their own needs first
> 3) the strongest and most egoistic individuals gather the most 
> resources and get to hold power and multiply
> 4) civilization becomes materialistic beyond reason
> 5) Civilization destroys planet and itself before it can make contact 
> with other planet-dwellers.
>
> We're there already, we know it and we're still pumping up oil....
>
> Aloha
> Axel
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> Namens 
> Timothy Blackwood
> Verzonden: zondag 10 maart 2019 17:13
> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem 
> collectors < rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com>
> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] A field guide to finding fossils on Mars.
> (open access paper)
>
> Dora,
>
> "NO!"? As in "NO! You haven't read the paper."? Or that you REFUSE to 
> read the paper?
>
> I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you think that "Planet 
> Earth" is the only place with life (past or present). While conditions 
> today may not be favorable for life, who's to say they werent in the 
> past. The article simply indicates what scientists should look for in 
> the way of life that may have evolved when conditions were still 
> favorable. I don't think there were ever "Little Green Men" on Mars.
> Maybe elsewhere in the universe though. I'd love to know what kinds of 
> minerals they're collecting. 🙂
>
> But I do think there has to be life of some kinds out there. 
> Otherwise, there's a whole lot of wasted if our planet is the only occupied one.
>
> Going back under my rock now. lol
>
>
> Timothy J. Blackwood
> E-mail: Tim_Blackwood1 at hotmail.com<mailto:Tim_Blackwood1 at hotmail.com>
> Phone: (218) 999-0603
> Home Address:
> 120 NW 5th Street Apartment 101
> Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rockhounds <rockhounds-bounces at rockhounds.drizzle.com> on behalf 
> of Dora Smith <tiggernut24 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 9:14 AM
> To: rockhounds at rockhounds.drizzle.com
> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A field guide to finding fossils on Mars. 
> (open access paper)
>
> NO.
>
> Spoken from Planet Earth.   Without any of that funny weed.
>
> Dora
>
> On 3/9/2019 10:00 PM, Kitty wrote:
> > Read. The.  Article.
> >
> > Aloha, Kitty
> >
> > On 3/8/2019 4:49 PM, Dora Smith wrote:
> > It's a joke, right?  There ARE no fossils on Mars.
> >
> > Dora
> >
> > On 3/8/2019 8:11 PM, Paul wrote:
> > McMahon, S., Bosak, T., Grotzinger, J.P., Milliken, R.E., Summons, 
> > R.E., Daye, M., Newman, S.A., Fraeman, A., Williford, K.H. and 
> > Briggs, D.E.G., 2018. A field guide to finding fossils on Mars.
> > Journal of Geophysical
> > Research: Planets.vol. 123, no. 5, pp. 1020-1040
> > https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2017JE00547
> > 8
> >
> > McMahon, S., The chemistry of fossilization on Earth and Mars.
> > http://www.portlandpresspublishing.com/sites/default/files/biochemis
> > t/
> > Biochemist%20Space%20issue%20Dec%202018/BioDEC18_chemistry%20of%20fo
> > ss
> > ilization%20pg%2028.pdf
> >
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Paul H.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockhounds mailing list
> > Subscription Services:
> > http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds
> > .d
> > rizzle.com
> >
> > List Usage Policy:
> > http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockhounds mailing list
> > Subscription Services:
> > http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds
> > .d
> > rizzle.com
> > List Usage Policy:
> > http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockhounds mailing list
> Subscription Services:
> http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds.d
> rizzle.com
> List Usage Policy:
> http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml
> _______________________________________________
> Rockhounds mailing list
> Subscription Services:
> http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds.d
> rizzle.com
> List Usage Policy:
> http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockhounds mailing list
> Subscription Services:
> http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds.d
> rizzle.com
> List Usage Policy:
> http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml
>
_______________________________________________
Rockhounds mailing list
Subscription Services:  http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds.drizzle.com
List Usage Policy: http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml

_______________________________________________
Rockhounds mailing list
Subscription Services:  http://rockhounds.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds_rockhounds.drizzle.com
List Usage Policy: http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Rockhounds/Rockhounds.shtml